Batman V Superman: Spoiler Reviews

[bralinator]

Please add your own reviews. I can't be the consensus.


This is long:

Here's my full take on the movie after getting a chance to see if for free. I'm of the opinion that only die-hard DC fans and indiscriminate movie goers could have enjoyed this dark, gloomy, unhappy, dreary universe that Zack Snyder has created for this franchise. I believe it really demonstrates a soulless step in the wrong direction.

I found there to be no one to root for, except maybe Wonder Woman, and her motivations were unclear. Everyone was so unhappy and angst-ridden it brought me down. The movie finally comes alive when the only woman on screen who can make a decision shows up in costume and there's an actual joke spoken. And in spite of Snyder's fetishism towards kick-(bleep) women, she breathes some life into this movie. Even the music changed when she turned up. And speaking of music, was the semi-iconic Man of Steel theme music ever played at any time in this picture, or even Batman's theme from the FAR superior Christian Bale trilogy? I don't think so. What a misstep. Letting Hans Zimmer hand off the music to Junkie XL was a mistake, too. As for Batman, it was a serviceable portrayal, I guess, but what was his beef here? I mean, what was wrong with him? I've grown up thinking that his entire angle has been him trying to mete out justice without killing the bad guys. The video games actually prevent him from killing. Even Heath Ledger's Joker wasn't purposely killed by the Dark Knight, but this Batman wants to kill Superman? "Do you bleed? You will." And even if your response is "he's done it in the comics" there should still be some in-story context for this. This movie totally dispenses with the idea that Batman doesn't want to kill. He's shooting guns all over the place in this film. He is killing without any second thought. As for Affleck himself, yeah he's a good actor, but he's no brooding Deniro-type. He may be the best actor in this movie (sans Jeremy Irons), but he did NOT pull off a believable Batman. He's got "privileged celebrity" down pat, so he can do Bruce Wayne, but his Batman is just... 'off'.

And as for Superman, he was truly under-served here. Where is his light? Doesn't he represent the light versus Batman's darkness? I believe this is the darkest he's ever appeared on celluloid and possibly comics too. Always struck with shadow and darkness. And why is he still so conflicted? And does Lois really mean more to him than the world? And mom and pop are still filling him with more tales of hopelessness and failures. Not to mention how he is totally outsmarted by everyone in this movie. And he can hear Lois is falling, but not that his mom is being kidnapped? Sheesh. This is Super-man?

And as for both characters, what lessons are there for children seeing this movie? These guys are completely portrayed out-of-character, betraying what's always been generally cool about the heroes. And they just keep pounding and pounding on each other. Typical Snyder signature, not counting his usual style over substance, speed ramping, and slow motion shots.

And it feels like nothing is put into context in this movie. The whole ambience of this film was mysterious and strange, like some weird Japanese horror-film. Where was the humor? I don't want Schumacher camp, but is there really no sweetness and light in this universe? Even the Nolan trilogy had some dark humor embedded in it. This.has.none.whatsoever. It felt like it was basically a retelling of Watchmen with different action figures. When did we get some heroics we could root for? Maybe in one Batman action scene? Where was the basic story-telling craft? It's like we arrived up as a fly-on-the-wall and missed what story beats came before or what will come after, so we have to fill in the gaps ourselves. It felt like all set-up and franchise property product placement - an overlong commercial for future movies with nothing at it's heart. Cripes, the DC Animated 'Batman: The Dark Knight Returns' was FAR superior to this movie and more believable in the heroes' motivations.

Don't get me started on all the failures of logic and poor writing, because Zack Snyder's basic tone-deafness for this universe is enough to destroy this movie's credibility for me. The noisy CGI and the blackness all over the screen was just too much for me. The hokiness and contrived plot holes could be a whole other rant. And the murdering crook that killed the Wayne's but left behind the pearls... is he the worst robber ever? And did we really need the origin of Batman again? Got any fresh approaches?

Even comic book super-fan and DC shill Kevin Smith said on a recent podcast:

"The movie I felt like didn't really have a heart. It was certainly fucking humorless, there was nothing funny going on in that world whatsoever, but it had lots of spectacle. Like you can't take that away from (Zack) Snyder. Boy, he knows how to like compose a frame and how to setup a shot. Beautiful visual stylist but you need more than just the pictures, you need like characterization and these characters seemed off character, particularly Superman."

And just who was that mustached oddity supposed to be that was trying to warn Batman in the dream/premonition? And who is it that came up with all the hero logos for Luthor's files on metahumans? And speaking of Luthor, what an over-the-top, clichéd performance. Like some kind of Wes Anderson biopic. What was he doing? Did Zack not think to ask him to dial it back a little?

I will concede that this film is better than Fant4stic Four, but not by much. It's only slightly better than Freddy Vs Jason or AVP: Requiem because the pictures are prettier. I don't lay the blame for this movie's failures entirely on Zack Snyder. I mostly blame WB. Consider this, reports are circulating that the movie 'Suicide Squad' is undergoing reshoots now specifically designed to add more humor to the film and lighten its tone. despite having a trailer packed with jokes and superbly edited to Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," insiders say the film itself wasn't actually that funny and that every joke in the movie was shown in that trailer.

I think DC/WB needs more of a Kevin Feige-type at the helm than Geoff "Avi Arad" Johns. This movie was a disaster on almost every level in my opinion. I actually saw it for free and still couldn't wait for it to end. No fun at all. I could go on and on, but I've blathered on way too much already. To those that enjoyed BvS, I'm very happy for you, but for me, this was an excruciating experience like watching a train-wreck. Snyder is much more interested in the technical aspect of filmmaking, preferring visual perfection over character development. All of his films look immaculate. His visuals are stunning: Every frame could be a painting. That is his oeuvre along with all of his movies being weighty and dark. I actually hope DC gives these properties a breather and fires Snyder before moving forward. Or demotes him to DP instead of director.

/RANT OFF


(reposted at CGS forums)

[SpideySavestheDay]

What I can't understand is the extreme opinions fans have for this movie. Those who liked it (myself included) are generally praising BvS for being a good comic book movie. Those that disliked it are attacking with vitriol statements, especially about the portrayal of a few of the key characters. The best argument I could find or understand is the "this is not the Batman/Superman I grew up reading".

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

This Batman was clearly from Frank Miller's DKR; he is unhappy about everything...his parent's death, Robin's death, Superman's ascension, Wayne Manor burned, getting older, etc. He's a grumpy old man, but that's ok. It's Batman; he's dark and doesn't smile.

Unquestionably, Wonder Woman was incredible. Gal Gadot looks the part; the action sequences with her - her bracelets, sword, shield, and lasso - was perfect. The only complaint was - why wasn't there more screen time for her?

The cameo appearances of the other League members was a nice touch, especially the one with Flash time-traveling. Was that a Mother Box Silas Stone used to change his son into Cyborg?

Finally, I got the chills when parademons made their appearance and the large Omega symbol in Batman's vision.

[bralinator]

For me, this movie was a hot mess and I wanted it to be good. Only die hard, knowledgeable comic book enthusiasts could've been able to keep up with this. And I am a fan of the Flash and didn't know who that was. Was that a mustache in that vision?

Of all Batman related comic book films, for 'BvS,' my over 'Batman & Robin', my under is 'Batman Begins.'

They tried to cram too much. Couldn't tell if this was Man of Steel 2 or Justice League prologue

[fudd71]

I have stayed out of this discussion but will give my thoughts now. I am in the seemingly unique position of neither hating nor loving this film, it is just ok.

I think there are two major flaws in the film, one an actual flaw and one just an opinion I don't share with writer. From those I have talked to that hate this film I would also argue their complain should be with David Goyer not Zack Snyder even though blaming Snyder seems to way their rage is directed.

I think the concrete actual flaw is the film tries to tell way to many stories and move the DCU way to far for a single film. To me there are six major plot point most of which the surface isn't even scratched on. You may have been able to combine a few of these, but certainly not all. To cover all the ground in this film I think you would need at least 3 films if not more.

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER: what I see as the six major points covered but not nearly as in dept as needed by this film

1. The love story between Clark and Lois, while it is a major plot point through out the entire film is was never established. The relationship and love between Clark and Lois is not justified based on what was in Man of Steel and just is by the time this film starts. That story in an of itself needs a lot more explanation then we are ever given in the two films.
2. Introduce this version of Batman and his two motivations; his parents death and Superman's destruction of the city during his fight with Zod. You could then introduce his methods and justifications for them that are different then most of us are use to. It is easy to say we don't need another Batman origin movie, and I agree, but this Batman is so different in believes and methods then the one most people know, this one does need a new origin.
3.The story of Lex and the Superman. What are Lex's motivations to dislike Superman and how he figures out how to use kryptonite.
4. This Batman deciding Superman needs to be stopped and preparing for and accomplishing that. This is essentially the bulk of the film we got, but much is missing because Bruce and Lex are not established clearly, nor is the love between Clark and Lois that make this fight as we see it possible.
5. The creation of and battle with Doomsday, this could be a film unto itself, yet just feels tacked on to this one.
6. The introduction of Wonder Woman and why she is invested in a battle between Batman and Superman in anyway shape or form or even wants to help against Doomsday is never explained or even really hinted at.

And don't even get me started on the hints at Darkseid and other worlds made in the film, I'm extremely glad the scene with Steppenwolf and the mother boxes got cut, that would have just added a new layer of things that didn't need to be in the same film

While that covers what I see as technical flaws in the storytelling process most of the vitriol I see against this film is not related to the story telling and plot issues. What seems to be the underlying complaint I see in almost all negative comments about the film is philosophical. It is clear the writer (David Goyer) believes there is no such thing as good power. The entire point of view of the film is that power by the very fact it exists is evil and extremely dangerous. This was on display to some degree in Man of Steel and fully stated in this film. That I don't see as a technical flaw, it is simply the logical way to tell the story of Superman if you have that cosmological point of view. I think this was the overriding theme of the film and one Superman fans and most comic book fans don't share. That is not the point of view most people have taken when telling stories about Superman and it seems to have rubbed many people (myself included) the wrong way. But I won't say it is terrible movie just because I disagree with the films point of view. It is not a good film for many of the reasons I stated earlier about too much information not being well developed being shoved into a single film, but I think most people hate the film because they don't share the writers cosmology.
Arguably while Lex is ultimately revealed to be completely insane and imprisoned for his actions of blowing up the Senate chambers, kidnapping Lois and Martha Kent and creating Doomsday there is not really a good reason given in the film why he was ever wrong about his fear and distrust of Superman however. He is insane and a criminal but never shown to wrong about Superman. He isn't imprisoned because he set up Superman to lose a fight to Batman he is imprisoned because of other criminal acts. That fact Batman isn't imprisoned or wanted, tells the crime wasn't in wanting or trying to kill Superman but in his other crimes.

[bralinator]

Regarding Goyer/Snyder's treatment of Superman, here are a few more things that bugged me:

1. Why does everybody blame Superman for the massacre in Africa? Why not blame the Daily Planet? Or Lois Lane herself, who was accompanied both by the CIA and mercenaries (eventually revealed to be hired by Lex Luthor), all disguised as photojournalists? I guess one could ask why Superman let them shoot each other and only bothered to show up when Lois was in danger...

2. What was going on in the US Capitol? Couldn't Supes hear a bomb about to explode? And when it did explode, why did he just stand there like he had just farted at a wedding? He did NOTHING. Just sad-face Superman... standing in a room full of flames and charred bodies.

3. Most of Batman v Superman's story is pointless busywork - and so.very.dreary.and .boring. Why does this movie need both the African massacre and the explosion in the US Capitol for Superman to feel bad about the chaos he's brought to the world? Get over it.

4. When Luthor uses Lois as a damsel in distress bait to lure Superman out into the open, he then reveals he's also kidnapped Superman's mom. Did both Martha Kent AND Lois Lane need to be captured for this story to make sense? And why did Luthor bother to try to get import approval when he was going to just steal the kryptonite regardless?

5. Add this to the list of lame dream sequences (this film had so many I now hate dream sequences). What's the point of Clark's dream visit with his dad? Just to point out that no matter what you do, or how hard you work to save people, something might go wrong ... and then a bunch of horses will drown? Is Zack's lesson for the kids in the audience that, once again, even though it's good to help people, maybe you shouldn't? Why wasn't THIS scene deleted from Pete's sake?

6. Why didn't Superman give the spear to Wonder Woman to tackle the bad CGI cave-troll Doomsday? She isn't bothered by kryptonite, is she?

But hey, it’s still Batman fighting Superman in live-action, so it’s certainly worth watching. Especially if you can avoid the rest of the crushingly-dull and sloppy movie. As for David Goyer, he is definitely an easy target. Just check out how wrong-headed he is about superheroes, period: Here and here

[bralinator]

Some lingering questions:

1) Why is Batman, who we're told has been operating for years, still referred to as "The Bat"? Seems a bit odd. Only Perry White called him by his monicker.

2) How can Superman be ignorant that the authorities apparently approve of Batman if they have a bat signal that alerts the Dark Knight whenever he is needed?

3) Why would Batman's branding of a criminal result in that criminal being hurt or killed in prison? Wouldn't it mean they had fought Batman? Seems like a badge of courage/honor. Why would other criminals try to hurt a fellow inmate for that?

4) Why did Superman mail the engagement ring to his mom's house in Smallville for Lois? Wouldn't he just bring the ring with him?

Probably best not to think about it too much...

[drew]

I liked it, thought it was pretty good, had a few minor complaints:

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

I did not think the Batman V Superman fight was earned, it seemed contrived on the Superman side-if supe can hear lois drowning underwater, he could find his mom

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

I didn't like Lex Luthor, thought he was way too sociopath and less misunderstood genius, he seemed much closer to being portrayed as the Riddler

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

what was the connection between Bruce Wayne and guy in wheel chair, why was he sending him checks? I may have missed that part

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

intro to the rest of the JL could have been a bit more substantial, shame flash wasn't the TV actor

[bralinator]

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

intro to the rest of the JL could have been a bit more substantial, shame flash wasn't the TV actor

It was kind of lame. Did Lex Luthor actually create logos for each of the meta-humans or did his marketing department do that? Why does Lex Luthor have four blatant bits of product placement on his computer? Has he been maintaining a secret double life as a film publicist? I'm sure selling the Aquaman movie is very hard. And how did he come up with the Cyborg logo? Was he already known as Cyborg before he was actually a cyborg? Ugh. As for the Flash, I think it was a major misstep for DC not to cast the television actor in the Flash role. Especially with that show being such a monster hit for them.

My final verdict is that this movie is angry, grim, strangely nihilistic. Poorly written with scattershot acting and so many missed opportunities to be good while trying to stuff too many scripts into one movie. 2out of 5 stars.

[NiklasJ]

Finally watched it! Not a bad movie, it built some excitement for the sequels and especially Wonder Woman!

I agree with the OP and most everyone else, whoever the main characters are supposed to be they dont behave or talk like any kind of Batman (shooting guns and killing all over the place) or Superman (slow and stupid, hits first, very brooding) that I was expecting.