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Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:12 pm
by fudd71
The comic reading public got what it asked for. DC did more then any other publisher big or small to keep price down for the last 3-5 years and their sales and place in the market place didn't change at all. The people that claim to want cheaper comic pricing had a chance to walk the walk and overwhelmingly didn't. This isn't rocket science, it is basic reacting to what the marketplace wants. Comic readers told the publishers what they were willing to pay with actual dollars not internet posts.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:17 am
by drew
A poorly written comic doesn't improve with a lower sticker price - and the higher prices do not deter retailers from buying comics (of course they like the higher profit margins) but we don't really know how many actual comics sell to readers - who can say what is sitting on the shelves or in back issue bins...plus an awful lot of folks seem to be moving to marvel unlimited and price is a factor for many of them
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:26 am
by JohnMayo
Most comic shops don't have a back issue selection. As a result, those comic shops are ordering new comics with the intent of selling out of them by the time they would have taken them off the shelf and moved them into the back issue bins. I suspect the majority of the comics ordered by most stores are sold to readers. Certainly not all of them are and the downward trends in sales to stores is most likely a reflection of both lowering sales to readers and the stores trying to zero out on copies by the end of the initial shelf life of the issues. Left over copies eat into profits. If a store has an excessive amount of them, even if it just a single left copy per issue, it can really eat into the cashflow for a store. Unless a store has a viable back issue business, they are most likely aiming to sell out of the new comics with a month or so of release.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:09 pm
by erickowabunga
JohnMayo wrote:Most comic shops don't have a back issue selection. As a result, those comic shops are ordering new comics with the intent of selling out of them by the time they would have taken them off the shelf and moved them into the back issue bins. I suspect the majority of the comics ordered by most stores are sold to readers. Certainly not all of them are and the downward trends in sales to stores is most likely a reflection of both lowering sales to readers and the stores trying to zero out on copies by the end of the initial shelf life of the issues. Left over copies eat into profits. If a store has an excessive amount of them, even if it just a single left copy per issue, it can really eat into the cashflow for a store. Unless a store has a viable back issue business, they are most likely aiming to sell out of the new comics with a month or so of release.
Yes! As a retailer who does have a back issue bin section, these new books still eat into our profits. People very rarely seek out "new" issues in the back issue bin. If they do, it is almost always one of two things:
1) Hot titles (Star Wars, Harley, Deadpool) that always sell out as soon as we can bring them in
2) Obscure titles that hardly anyone has ever heard of, and even less people ordered it
This is exactly why we order very few titles for the shelf that we are unsure of, and encourage people to look in previews to see what they may want. Putting $2 per issue on the line, over the hundreds of new issues monthly is simply not feasible in a small market.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:49 pm
by fudd71
drew102e wrote:A poorly written comic doesn't improve with a lower sticker price
This is just a different way of saying "I like what I like and price (at least the current $2.99-$4.99) doesn't have much bearing on that. " This is what the market has overwhelming told the publishers and retailers. That is fine, but you can't then claim gouging, the product is sold at the price the market will bear, and as long as their is no advantage to the publishers to hold the price down they won't.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:37 am
by drew
JohnMayo wrote:Most comic shops don't have a back issue selection.
The LCSs in my neck of the woods have plenty of back issues each and every week but I'm sure most other shops project sales based on pull list accounts to better refine their inventory
fudd71 wrote:Comic readers told the publishers what they were willing to pay with actual dollars.
fudd71 wrote:This is just a different way of saying "I like what I like and price (at least the current $2.99-$4.99) doesn't have much bearing on that. " This is what the market has overwhelming told the publishers and retailers. That is fine, but you can't then claim gouging, the product is sold at the price the market will bear, and as long as their is no advantage to the publishers to hold the price down they won't.
I think you are confusing the comics industry with how most businesses work: so let me get this straight- are you saying it ISN'T price gouging when Marvel raises an issue of spiderman to $6.99 BECAUSE when the price was announced in previews 3 months ago everyone with a pulllist didn't tell their LCS to drop the book for that month, so the retailer continued to order the book same as always and therefore you equate that with "readers don't care about the price"
Is that what you are saying?
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:51 am
by JohnMayo
drew102e wrote:I think you are confusing the comics industry with how most businesses work: so let me get this straight- are you saying it ISN'T price gouging when Marvel raises an issue of spiderman to $6.99 BECAUSE when the price was announced in previews 3 months ago everyone with a pulllist didn't tell their LCS to drop the book for that month, so the retailer continued to order the book same as always and therefore you equate that with "readers don't care about the price"
Is that what you are saying?
I think "price gouging" is the wrong term. From wikipedia (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging):
Code: Select all
[b]Price gouging[/b] is a pejorative term referring to when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent. Usually this event occurs after a demand or supply shock: common examples include price increases of basic necessities after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some jurisdictions of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits.
This discussion seems to be more around the question of if comics are overpriced. That is a fair question. The term "price gouging" seems inaccurate in the context of the comic book market.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:09 am
by SpideySavestheDay
Hard to accuse a niche entertainment of gouging. Comics are definitely not a need and people have plenty of opportunity to choose the other comics or entertainment for cheaper amounts. Overpriced does fit. This combined with the problems of a preorder industry feels extremely unfair, yet, specifically, Marvel customers continue to lay down money for their books. John's analysis of the top 100 over a significant length of time has proven that.
Does it feel like gouging to loyal life time readers - Probably. Worse, it feels like a non-starter to a new comic fan, specifically a kid. What kid can afford the price increases? I think the prices more than anything proves the comic industry is focused on older established customers than attracting the younger newer generation. That's a BIG problem.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:11 am
by drew
Price gouging-when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent.
yep, that's exactly what I meant
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:12 am
by drew
SpideySavestheDay wrote:Does it feel like gouging to loyal life time readers - Probably. Worse, it feels like a non-starter to a new comic fan, specifically a kid. What kid can afford the price increases? I think the prices more than anything proves the comic industry is focused on older established customers than attracting the younger newer generation. That's a BIG problem.
you nailed it- definitely keeping folks out
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:45 am
by JohnMayo
I agree that the price of comics are keeping casual readers out. Lower prices might help in that regard. That having been said, there are no guarantees lower prices would yield higher sales and there is some proof to the contrary.
Drew, can you be more specific why you feel "price gouging" is an accurate term?
Given comics are selling at the current prices, a case can be made the prices are considered reasonable or fair. I'm not sure how the prices could be "considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent."
While we'd all like lower prices, in what regards are the publishers acting in an unethical manner by charging what they feel the market will allow?
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:30 am
by drew
drew102e wrote:Price gouging-when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent.
yep, that's exactly what I meant
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:50 pm
by erickowabunga
I think a major component to this that may be overlooked is simply budgeting. Sure, comic readers are going to buy their comics. But . . . if the family budget says $100 per month, $40 per month, whatever it is - a comic lover is going to find a way to fill that. The total $ amount of books will be the same, but the number of titles supported can grow/shrink as pricing goes. When I got in to comics, the price was around the $1.50-1.99 mark. In a decade, prices have doubled. My income hasn't . . . so naturally my purchasing ability has dwindled.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:06 pm
by JohnMayo
drew102e wrote:drew102e wrote:Price gouging-when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent.
yep, that's exactly what I meant
I get that you consider the prices unreasonable and/or unfair. What I don't understand is
how/why you feel that way.
Re: Big Two Price Gouging is a Problem
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:32 pm
by drew
drew102e wrote:bralinator wrote:How many of these funny books are even re-readable? Maybe because I'm older and growing weary of the shenanigans and steeper pricing, but it's gotten completely out of hand. And as for most of these new titles, it almost feels like we're paying $4 to $5 on a 22-page pamphlet, because nothing is resolved, it's all just set-up, or promotion.
you are on to something not enough of them are worth the $$...some issues I wish I had a starbucks instead
because of this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^